Talk:Research and Ideas/Munching Minions by Scouter - Revision history

Ilde: /* Explained */

2012-08-13T18:54:49Z

‎Explained

Ilde: /* Explained */

2012-08-13T18:54:25Z

‎Explained

Ilde: /* Explained */

2012-08-13T18:37:29Z

‎Explained

Ilde: /* Explained */ new section

2012-08-13T18:32:20Z

‎Explained: new section

Tigress at 19:21, 1 August 2012

2012-08-01T19:21:47Z

Inige at 11:32, 17 June 2010

2010-06-17T11:32:31Z

Disto at 15:39, 14 June 2010

2010-06-14T15:39:07Z

Disto: Created page with 'Hey, has it occured to you that the experience leech might be directly linked to the amount of damage each party has done? Have you for instance tried to compare the experience o…'

2010-06-14T15:38:51Z

Created page with 'Hey, has it occured to you that the experience leech might be directly linked to the amount of damage each party has done? Have you for instance tried to compare the experience o…'

New page

Hey, has it occured to you that the experience leech might be directly linked to the amount of damage each party has done? Have you for instance tried to compare the experience of killing such a target with your main weapon plus the summons and then with wimp and another weapon type, again with the summons. And comparing the experience gain to see if it is in fact damage related?

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:54, 13 August 2012
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	:ETA: And, most npcs don't give consistent kill or bury xp (that is, five farmers will give five different amounts). (I don't know if that explains Scouter's differences in bury xp for devil and totem, or two devils vs devil+totem, or if something else does (xp rate, stuff having changed since then... whatever.) For testing purposes, though, it's best if you can find a type of npc that gives very nearly the same amount of xp every time, and keep your rate under 100k/hour. --[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:37, 13 August 2012 (BST)		:ETA: And, most npcs don't give consistent kill or bury xp (that is, five farmers will give five different amounts). (I don't know if that explains Scouter's differences in bury xp for devil and totem, or two devils vs devil+totem, or if something else does (xp rate, stuff having changed since then... whatever.) For testing purposes, though, it's best if you can find a type of npc that gives very nearly the same amount of xp every time, and keep your rate under 100k/hour. --[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:37, 13 August 2012 (BST)

−	:...Oh, and of course if you ritbury instead of burying normally, you get command xp (up to 1500 per corpse) on top of bury xp, but ever since Turvity made it so that you ~~get~~ spend the gp and get the command xp at the ''end'' of the ritbury, you can't see it separately from the bury xp. And the command xp you get is diminished with repetition of the command. --[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:54, 13 August 2012 (BST)	+	:...Oh, and of course if you ritbury instead of burying normally, you get command xp (up to 1500 per corpse) on top of bury xp, but ever since Turvity made it so that you spend the gp and get the command xp at the ''end'' of the ritbury, you can't see it separately from the bury xp. And the command xp you get is diminished with repetition of the command. --[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:54, 13 August 2012 (BST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:54, 13 August 2012
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	:ETA: And, most npcs don't give consistent kill or bury xp (that is, five farmers will give five different amounts). (I don't know if that explains Scouter's differences in bury xp for devil and totem, or two devils vs devil+totem, or if something else does (xp rate, stuff having changed since then... whatever.) For testing purposes, though, it's best if you can find a type of npc that gives very nearly the same amount of xp every time, and keep your rate under 100k/hour. --[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:37, 13 August 2012 (BST)		:ETA: And, most npcs don't give consistent kill or bury xp (that is, five farmers will give five different amounts). (I don't know if that explains Scouter's differences in bury xp for devil and totem, or two devils vs devil+totem, or if something else does (xp rate, stuff having changed since then... whatever.) For testing purposes, though, it's best if you can find a type of npc that gives very nearly the same amount of xp every time, and keep your rate under 100k/hour. --[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:37, 13 August 2012 (BST)
		+
		+	:...Oh, and of course if you ritbury instead of burying normally, you get command xp (up to 1500 per corpse) on top of bury xp, but ever since Turvity made it so that you get spend the gp and get the command xp at the ''end'' of the ritbury, you can't see it separately from the bury xp. And the command xp you get is diminished with repetition of the command. --[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:54, 13 August 2012 (BST)

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	--[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:32, 13 August 2012 (BST)		--[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:32, 13 August 2012 (BST)
		+
		+	:ETA: And, most npcs don't give consistent kill or bury xp (that is, five farmers will give five different amounts). (I don't know if that explains Scouter's differences in bury xp for devil and totem, or two devils vs devil+totem, or if something else does (xp rate, stuff having changed since then... whatever.) For testing purposes, though, it's best if you can find a type of npc that gives very nearly the same amount of xp every time, and keep your rate under 100k/hour. --[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:37, 13 August 2012 (BST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:32, 13 August 2012
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	35025 total exp.		35025 total exp.
	[[User:Tigress\|Tigress]] 20:21, 1 August 2012 (BST)		[[User:Tigress\|Tigress]] 20:21, 1 August 2012 (BST)
		+
		+	== Explained ==
		+
		+	Alright, I guess this is as good a place to put this as any, since I don't really feel like making a whole page at this point. What I have found when doing/helping with some research is that minions (at least totems and devils; others may or may not work the same way) appear to share xp WITH THE SUMMONER just like groupmates. However, for players who ''didn't'' summon them, they don't share as much xp (effectively, half of what they share with the summoner) but still contribute to the xp ''division''. The whole thing seems to work like this (for simplification purposes, assume that everyone the npc is fighting are present for both the kill and the burial):
		+	#Kill and bury xp are divided by the number of people (players and npcs) the npc is fighting when it dies.
		+	#If bury xp is ''Y'', kill xp can be up to ''Y'' but usually won't be because it gets scaled down according to your guild level and your wimpy. And kill xp is penalized at a lower xp rate (100k) than bury xp(500k). The guild level thing seems to be ''a''/(your guild level), where ''a'' is possibly the dead npc's guild level if it's less than yours. While you can't see npcs' guild levels directly, you can observe the way that players of different guild levels get (solo/their portion of) kill xp from the same creature. A player with twice your guild level gets half the kill xp.
		+	#Players share up to half of the kill and burial xp with each groupmate in the room (the amount you share with someone is scaled down if your guild level is more than twice theirs). "Sharing" doesn't diminish your own xp and essentially creates some free xp. I.e. if I get 100 kill xp, all my groupmates get 50 xp from me.
		+	#Totems and devils share half of ''their'' kill and bury xp with their summoner.
		+	#Either totems and devils share a ''quarter'' of their kill and bury xp with their summoner's groupmates, or the summoner shares, in turn, half of the xp they got from the minion(s) with their groupmates.
		+	#A small amount, ''b'' seems to be added to the end (or at some earlier point). It's sort of puzzling but fairly consistent, and goes up with the number of people/npcs you're getting shared xp from (counting a groupmate's minion as one half): 18-21 for one, 28-31 for 1.5, 32-42 for 2, 40-44 for 2.5, 48-54 for 3, and 70-76 for 5. If ''n'' is the number of people you're getting shared xp from (again, counting groupmate's minions as one half each), then ''b'' seems to be close to 11*(''n''+1).
		+
		+	Minions who disappear (die or are dismissed, or whose durations expire), BEFORE the kill, don't seem to count at all (it's as though the whole fight took place without them). If they disappear after the kill they count as far as division goes but don't share any of the bury xp with you. So, if you use minions for a fight and they're still around at the end, it's in your best interest to bury before they leave.
		+
		+
		+	For example[1], let's say I'm grouped with one person and also have a dust devil. We kill something that would give me 3646 ''bury'' xp[2] solo. Since there are three of us, a single share is 1215 xp and a half share (the amount of your own piece you share with groupmates) is 607. The ''total'' bury xp I should get is 1215 (my share) + 607 (from groupmate) + 607 (from minion) + 32 (a bit) = 2461. The ''total'' bury xp my groupmate should get is 1215 (their share) + 607 (from me) + 303 (from my minion) + 28 (a bit) = 2153. Actually, I got 2464 bury xp and my groupmate got 2156--very close.
		+
		+
		+	*[1]Example numbers are from actual test--the test I was doing to try to figure out ''b''.
		+	*[2]At this point I wasn't tracking kill xp, so bury xp only it is.
		+
		+	Scouter's results could therefore be explained like this: totems and devils are much lower-level than the summoner (or, at least, Scouter's are lower-level than him) and therefore don't have their share of the kill xp scaled down nearly as much. Therefore, when they shared with Scouter, he got more kill xp than he would have solo. From his results table, he got 134 kill xp solo, 406 with a totem, and 241 with a devil. With one minion, his share of the kill xp would have been about 85 (remembering the extra bit), so the totem shared about 321 kill xp with him and the devil shared about 156 kill xp with him. Since they're sharing half of what they got (or doing something that gives the same appearance), that means that the totem got 642 kill xp and the devil got 312. It would seem that the devil Scouter summoned for this was about 1/4 his guild level, and the totem about 1/8.
		+
		+	At one point, if you made a spectre (specifically) kill an npc and didn't fight the npc yourself, the spectre would "share" ''negative'' xp. I got a reply back saying that was fixed, though, so whatever mechanism spectres use for sharing xp has probably changed from whatever it was when Scouter did this research.
		+
		+	--[[User:Ilde\|Ilde]] 19:32, 13 August 2012 (BST)

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	Because, generally speaking, the mud doesn't figure xp like that, its more along the lines of how a group shares xp, in how dust devils suck xp, at least that was my view of it, considering unquiet spirit spectres do a negligable amount of damage to most semi-strong npcs (think palace guards)--inige		Because, generally speaking, the mud doesn't figure xp like that, its more along the lines of how a group shares xp, in how dust devils suck xp, at least that was my view of it, considering unquiet spirit spectres do a negligable amount of damage to most semi-strong npcs (think palace guards)--inige
		+
		+	I tested this on my priest Silver on 8/1/2012, and got very comparable results. I killed 20 farmers outside DJB both with and without my totem.
		+
		+	Without totem:
		+	2714 kill exp,
		+	32334 bury exp,
		+	35048 total exp.
		+
		+	With totem:
		+	10275 kill exp,
		+	24750 bury exp,
		+	35025 total exp.
		+	[[User:Tigress\|Tigress]] 20:21, 1 August 2012 (BST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:32, 17 June 2010
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	Hey, has it occured to you that the experience leech might be directly linked to the amount of damage each party has done? Have you for instance tried to compare the experience of killing such a target with your main weapon plus the summons and then with wimp and another weapon type, again with the summons. And comparing the experience gain to see if it is in fact damage related? -- Disto		Hey, has it occured to you that the experience leech might be directly linked to the amount of damage each party has done? Have you for instance tried to compare the experience of killing such a target with your main weapon plus the summons and then with wimp and another weapon type, again with the summons. And comparing the experience gain to see if it is in fact damage related? -- Disto
		+
		+
		+	Because, generally speaking, the mud doesn't figure xp like that, its more along the lines of how a group shares xp, in how dust devils suck xp, at least that was my view of it, considering unquiet spirit spectres do a negligable amount of damage to most semi-strong npcs (think palace guards)--inige

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:39, 14 June 2010
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−	Hey, has it occured to you that the experience leech might be directly linked to the amount of damage each party has done? Have you for instance tried to compare the experience of killing such a target with your main weapon plus the summons and then with wimp and another weapon type, again with the summons. And comparing the experience gain to see if it is in fact damage related?	+	Hey, has it occured to you that the experience leech might be directly linked to the amount of damage each party has done? Have you for instance tried to compare the experience of killing such a target with your main weapon plus the summons and then with wimp and another weapon type, again with the summons. And comparing the experience gain to see if it is in fact damage related? -- Disto