Research and Ideas/Alignment and Effects by Ilde

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This is in-progress. I'm trying to document--using detect alignment (as granted by Sandelfon) and score align--alignment vs. your deity's opinion of you and the effects of it. I started this when I found I was too evil to perform rituals and I had to pray my way back to neutral. I found that there's overlap between the three different scales used to show alignment:

  • how good/neutral/evil "score align" tells you you are,
  • what "score align" tells you your god's opinion of you is, and
  • the results of performing Detect Alignment on yourself.

My intention is to find out exactly where these scales overlap for the various gods, and what happens (and when) when you're off-alignment.

I'm just going to fill the tables in more as I gather more data.

Starting assumptions:

  • That there's no difference between the different deity's versions of detect alignment, except for what the indicator looks like: that one degree on the scale=1 flare=1 drop.
  • That it's the same for followers as for priests.

Deity's opinion and effects

This table shows what your deity's opinion of you means, roughly.

Deity's opinion of you Effects
Very happy with you On-alignment, no effects.
Pleased with you At the farther end you start being "slightly distracted from your prayers" or find that it's "hard to keep [deity] in your thoughts as you pray" (these messages appear to be interchangable). However, this is with low skills in faith.rituals.special; with a higher bonus the messages appear when your deity is more unhappy with you. The messages appear to be only a warning that you're getting out of alignment.
A little concerned about you At the farther end you start finding that it's more difficult to perform rituals because you "can barely feel the presence of [deity]".
Quite annoyed with you Can't perform rituals. Barred from priests/followers-only area in temple.
Very angry with you
Extremely angry with you Can't perform rituals, but can get into priests/followers-only areas. You don't get this message from being out of alignment--it comes from annoying your deity more specifically, by shattering one of their relics.

At some point you can't get into the priests/followers-only area in your temple; I believe this starts during "a little concerned" but confirmation would be welcome.

Effects vs. alignment by god

This table shows when these things happen. I'm keeping track of both deity's opinion vs. textual alignment and deity's opinion vs. detect alignment results because I've seen a little bit of overlap between the ranges (of degrees good/evil) that the textual alignments cover, and I'm not sure there aren't instances where knowing both might yield extra information.

First is the textual alignment that you get from score align; under that is the numeric alignment from detect alignment, and under that is the number of beetles you can drown or rescue in Pumpkin Town to get that deity to have that opinion of you. (See "alignments reachable in Pumpkin Town, underneath.)

God: Pishe Gufnork Gapp Sandelfon Fish Hat Sek
Very happy (textual) extremely good quite good good neutral neutral evil extremely evil
(numeric) 25-26 good 6-7 good 3 good 0-4/17 evil 0-1 evil 5 evil 25-26 evil
(beetles) none 3 drowned
Pleased (textual) quite good-very good, extremely good barely good-good, quite good neutral(very slightly good)-good neutral-barely evil neutral, barely evil barely evil-evil, quite evil evil-extremely evil
(numeric) 6-25 good, 26-48 good 3-6 good, 7-10 good 0-3 good, 4-6 good 8/17-1 11/17 evil, 0-1 good 0, 2 evil 2-5 evil, 6-9 evil 3-25 evil, 26-49 evil
(beetles) 2-17 (max) rescued 2-7 rescued 1-4 rescued 1 rescued 0-1 drowned 4-5 drowned, 2 drowned 2-15 drowned
Pleased (textual) (rituals more difficult) barely good-quite good
(numeric) 3-6 good
(beetles)
A little concerned (no difficulty modifier for rituals) (textual) extremely good barely evil neutral quite evil extremely evil
(numeric) 49-50 good 1 15/17 evil 0 49-50 evil
(beetles)
God: Pishe Gufnork Gapp Sandelfon Fish Hat Sek
A little concerned (unsure about effect on rituals) (textual) barely good barely good neutral, quite good evil(2 drowned), neutral barely evil barely evil
(numeric) 2 good 0, 7 good 1 evil 2-3 evil
(beetles) 1 rescued (barely good) 1 rescued 0 beetles, 5 rescued 1 drowned 2 drowned, 1 rescued (neutral) 1 drowned
A little concerned (rituals more difficult) (textual) quite good barely evil evil quite evil
(numeric) 12 good under 2-2 6/17 evil 3 evil
(beetles)
Quite annoyed (textual) neutral-barely good very good quite good barely evil neutral, quite evil barely evil
(numeric) 1-2 good 12 good 7 good 2 10/17-3 1/17 evil 4 evil 0 evil, 10 evil 1-2 evil
(beetles) 1 rescued (neutral) 2 rescued 1 drowned
Very angry (textual) neutral-very evil neutral-very evil, very good barely evil-very evil, quite good-very good evil, good barely good-very good, evil-very evil neutral-very good, quite evil-very evil neutral-very good
(numeric) 0-25 evil 13-15 good 8-25 good 3 5/17 evil, 3 good 2-6 good 0 (perfectly neutral), 10-15 evil 1 evil-25 good
(beetles) 0-15 drowned 0-15 drowned, 8-16 rescued 1-15 drowned, 6-16 rescued 3-16 rescued, 2-15 drowned 2-16 rescued, 3-15 drowned 0-16 rescued, 6-15 drowned 0-16 rescued


When I have enough data, I want to turn this, and the textual alignment vs. degrees good/evil table, into a summarizing graphic.

Alignments reachable in Pumpkin Town

Drowning or rescuing beetles in the priests hut in Pumpkin Town can make you more evil/good, to an extent. The amount that rescuing or drowning a beetle changes your alignment doesn't seem to be fixed, so the following table will only give a rough idea of what alignments it's possible to reach by rescuing or drowning a certain number of beetles--if it says "14 degrees good" that only means that rescuing that number of beetles made someone 14 degrees good *once*. This probably means there's a range of alignments you might get from rescuing or drowning any given number of beetles.

After the fourteenth or fifteenth beetle drowned, "You realise that drowning the beetles has made you as nasty as you can be here". After the sixteenth to eighteenth beetle rescued, "You realise that helping the beetles has made you as nice as you can be here.".

Beetles Textual alignment Detect alignment results
max saved very good 25 degrees good
17 saved very good 25 degrees good
16 saved very good 24-25 degrees good
15 saved very good 23 degrees good
14 saved very good 21 degrees good
13 saved very good 19 degrees good
12 saved very good 17 degrees good
11 saved very good 14 degrees good
10 saved very good 14-16 degrees good
9 saved very good 14 degrees good
8 saved quite good/very good 12 degrees good (very good)
7 saved quite good 10 degrees good
6 saved quite good 9 degrees good
5 saved good/quite good 5 (good) - 6 or 7 (quite good) degrees
4 saved good 5 degrees good
3 saved good 4 degrees good
2 saved barely good/good 3 degrees good (good)
1 saved neutral/barely good 1 degree good (barely good)
0 neutral 0 good/evil
1 drowned barely evil 1 degree evil
2 drowned evil 3 degrees evil
3 drowned evil 5 degrees evil
4 drowned quite evil 6 degrees evil
5 drowned quite evil 8 degrees evil
6 drowned quite evil 10 degrees evil
7 drowned quite evil/very evil 12 degrees evil (quite evil)
8 drowned very evil 14 degrees evil
9 drowned very evil 14 degrees evil
10 drowned very evil 17 degrees evil
11 drowned very evil 18 degrees evil
12 drowned very evil 20 degrees evil
13 drowned very evil 23 degrees evil
14 drowned very evil 25 degrees evil
15 drowned very evil 25 degrees evil
max drowned very evil 25 degrees evil

Note: I started by going to Pumpkin Town and changing my own alignment, then seeing what "score align" said. That's where I got the textual alignments at first. Later on, I had a friend create a new character, then change alignment, enter Discworld, and let me perform the ritual once for every number of beetles rescued drowned--that's where most of the numeric alignment possibilities came from (though we still checked score align). I did this with a faith.rituals.misc.target bonus of 344.