Research and Ideas/Alignment and Effects by Ilde
This is in-progress. I'm trying to document--using detect alignment (as granted by Sandelfon) and score align--alignment vs. your deity's opinion of you and the effects of it. I started this when I found I was too evil to perform rituals and I had to pray my way back to neutral. I found that there's overlap between the three different scales used to show alignment:
- how good/neutral/evil "score align" tells you you are,
- what "score align" tells you your god's opinion of you is, and
- the results of performing Detect Alignment on yourself.
My intention is to find out exactly where these scales overlap for the various gods, and what happens (and when) when you're off-alignment.
I'm just going to fill the tables in more as I gather more data.
- That there's no difference between the different deity's versions of detect alignment, except for what the indicator looks like: that one degree on the scale=1 flare=1 drop.
- That it's the same for followers as for priests.
Deity's opinion and effects
This table shows what your deity's opinion of you means, roughly.
|Deity's opinion of you||Effects|
|Very happy with you||On-alignment, no effects.|
|Pleased with you||At the farther end you start being "slightly distracted from your prayers" or find that it's "hard to keep [deity] in your thoughts as you pray" (these messages appear to be interchangable). However, this is with low skills in faith.rituals.special; with a higher bonus the messages appear when your deity is more unhappy with you. The messages appear to be only a warning that you're getting out of alignment.|
|A little concerned about you||At the farther end you start finding that it's more difficult to perform rituals because you "can barely feel the presence of [deity]".|
|Quite annoyed with you||Can't perform rituals. Barred from priests/followers-only area in temple.|
|Very angry with you|
|Extremely angry with you||Can't perform rituals, but can get into priests/followers-only areas. You don't get this message from being out of alignment--it comes from annoying your deity more specifically, by shattering one of their relics.|
At some point you can't get into the priests/followers-only area in your temple; I believe this starts during "a little concerned" but confirmation would be welcome.
Effects vs. alignment by god
This table shows when these things happen. I'm keeping track of both deity's opinion vs. textual alignment and deity's opinion vs. detect alignment results because I've seen a little bit of overlap between the ranges (of degrees good/evil) that the textual alignments cover, and I'm not sure there aren't instances where knowing both might yield extra information.
First is the textual alignment that you get from score align; under that is the numeric alignment from detect alignment, and under that is the number of beetles you can drown or rescue in Pumpkin Town to get that deity to have that opinion of you. (See "alignments reachable in Pumpkin Town, underneath.)
|Very happy (textual)||extremely good||quite good||good||neutral||neutral||evil||extremely evil|
|(numeric)||25-26 good||6-7 good||3 good||0-4/17 evil||0-1 evil||5 evil||25-26 evil|
|Pleased (textual)||quite good-very good, extremely good||barely good-good, quite good||neutral(very slightly good)-good||neutral-barely evil||neutral, barely evil||barely evil-evil, quite evil||evil-extremely evil|
|(numeric)||6-25 good, 26-48 good||3-6 good, 7-10 good||0-3 good, 4-6 good||8/17-1 11/17 evil, 0-1 good||0, 2 evil||2-5 evil, 6-9 evil||3-25 evil, 26-49 evil|
|(beetles)||2-17 (max) rescued||2-7 rescued||1-4 rescued||1 rescued||0-1 drowned||4-5 drowned, 2 drowned||2-15 drowned|
|Pleased (textual) (rituals more difficult)||barely good-quite good|
|A little concerned (no difficulty modifier for rituals) (textual)||extremely good||barely evil||neutral||quite evil||extremely evil|
|(numeric)||49-50 good||1 15/17 evil||0||49-50 evil|
|A little concerned (unsure about effect on rituals) (textual)||barely good||barely good||neutral, quite good||evil(2 drowned), neutral||barely evil||barely evil|
|(numeric)||2 good||0, 7 good||1 evil||2-3 evil|
|(beetles)||1 rescued (barely good)||1 rescued||0 beetles, 5 rescued||1 drowned||2 drowned, 1 rescued (neutral)||1 drowned|
|A little concerned (rituals more difficult) (textual)||quite good||barely evil||evil||quite evil|
|(numeric)||12 good||under 2-2 6/17 evil||3 evil|
|Quite annoyed (textual)||neutral-barely good||very good||quite good||barely evil||neutral, quite evil||barely evil|
|(numeric)||1-2 good||12 good||7 good||2 10/17-3 1/17 evil||4 evil||0 evil, 10 evil||1-2 evil|
|(beetles)||1 rescued (neutral)||2 rescued||1 drowned|
|Very angry (textual)||neutral-very evil||neutral-very evil, very good||barely evil-very evil, quite good-very good||evil, good||barely good-very good, evil-very evil||neutral-very good, quite evil-very evil||neutral-very good|
|(numeric)||0-25 evil||13-15 good||8-25 good||3 5/17 evil, 3 good||2-6 good||0 (perfectly neutral), 10-15 evil||1 evil-25 good|
|(beetles)||0-15 drowned||0-15 drowned, 8-16 rescued||1-15 drowned, 6-16 rescued||3-16 rescued, 2-15 drowned||2-16 rescued, 3-15 drowned||0-16 rescued, 6-15 drowned||0-16 rescued|
When I have enough data, I want to turn this, and the textual alignment vs. degrees good/evil table, into a summarizing graphic.
Alignments reachable in Pumpkin Town
Drowning or rescuing beetles in the priests hut in Pumpkin Town can make you more evil/good, to an extent. The amount that rescuing or drowning a beetle changes your alignment doesn't seem to be fixed, so the following table will only give a rough idea of what alignments it's possible to reach by rescuing or drowning a certain number of beetles--if it says "14 degrees good" that only means that rescuing that number of beetles made someone 14 degrees good *once*. This probably means there's a range of alignments you might get from rescuing or drowning any given number of beetles.
After the fourteenth or fifteenth beetle drowned, "You realise that drowning the beetles has made you as nasty as you can be here". After the sixteenth to eighteenth beetle rescued, "You realise that helping the beetles has made you as nice as you can be here.".
|Beetles||Textual alignment||Detect alignment results|
|max saved||very good||25 degrees good|
|17 saved||very good||25 degrees good|
|16 saved||very good||24-25 degrees good|
|15 saved||very good||23 degrees good|
|14 saved||very good||21 degrees good|
|13 saved||very good||19 degrees good|
|12 saved||very good||17 degrees good|
|11 saved||very good||14 degrees good|
|10 saved||very good||14-16 degrees good|
|9 saved||very good||14 degrees good|
|8 saved||quite good/very good||12 degrees good (very good)|
|7 saved||quite good||10 degrees good|
|6 saved||quite good||9 degrees good|
|5 saved||good/quite good||5 (good) - 6 or 7 (quite good) degrees|
|4 saved||good||5 degrees good|
|3 saved||good||4 degrees good|
|2 saved||barely good/good||3 degrees good (good)|
|1 saved||neutral/barely good||1 degree good (barely good)|
|1 drowned||barely evil||1 degree evil|
|2 drowned||evil||3 degrees evil|
|3 drowned||evil||5 degrees evil|
|4 drowned||quite evil||6 degrees evil|
|5 drowned||quite evil||8 degrees evil|
|6 drowned||quite evil||10 degrees evil|
|7 drowned||quite evil/very evil||12 degrees evil (quite evil)|
|8 drowned||very evil||14 degrees evil|
|9 drowned||very evil||14 degrees evil|
|10 drowned||very evil||17 degrees evil|
|11 drowned||very evil||18 degrees evil|
|12 drowned||very evil||20 degrees evil|
|13 drowned||very evil||23 degrees evil|
|14 drowned||very evil||25 degrees evil|
|15 drowned||very evil||25 degrees evil|
|max drowned||very evil||25 degrees evil|
Note: I started by going to Pumpkin Town and changing my own alignment, then seeing what "score align" said. That's where I got the textual alignments at first. Later on, I had a friend create a new character, then change alignment, enter Discworld, and let me perform the ritual once for every number of beetles rescued drowned--that's where most of the numeric alignment possibilities came from (though we still checked score align). I did this with a faith.rituals.misc.target bonus of 344.