Talk:Detect Alignment

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Added the scale levels for Sandy Wizini 23:36, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


I've observed the overlap-in-scales thing. I got "barely evil" with one degree on the scale (and Sandelfon being "a little concerned" about me). Somewhere in the "barely evil" + "Sandelfon is a little concerned about you" range, I stopped getting the "more difficult because you can barely feel the presence of Sandelfon" message.

Log: You find it somewhat more difficult to perform detect alignment because you are far from a holy corridor. However, this is partially mitigated by the fact that you feel more comfortable praying indoors. You recite the psalm of acquisition. > You speak the prayer of divination. You close your eyes and indicate your desire to find out information about yourself. Your eyes closed, you see Sandelfon, God of Corridors, sitting cross-legged by a complicated scale. On one side, there is a feather, on the other a small clay statuette. As you watch, the scale slowly tilts one degree toward the statuette.

Queued command: score align

> You are barely evil. Sandelfon is a little concerned about you.

[after some praying]

It seems quite a bit easier to perform detect alignment because you feel more comfortable praying indoors and you have been actively worshipping Sandelfon. However, this is somewhat negated by the fact that you are far from a holy corridor. You recite the psalm of acquisition. > You speak the prayer of divination. You close your eyes and indicate your desire to find out information about yourself. Your eyes closed, you see Sandelfon, God of Corridors, sitting cross-legged by a complicated scale. On one side, there is a feather, on the other a small clay statuette. As you watch, the scale slowly tilts one degree toward the statuette.

You are barely evil. Sandelfon is pleased with you.

[after more praying (and I was still getting the distracted/hard to keep Sandelfon in your thoughts message)]

It seems quite a bit easier to perform detect alignment because you feel more comfortable praying indoors and you have been actively worshipping Sandelfon. However, this is somewhat negated by the fact that you are far from a holy corridor. You recite the psalm of acquisition. You speak the prayer of divination. You close your eyes and indicate your desire to find out information about yourself. Your eyes closed, you see Sandelfon, God of Corridors, sitting cross-legged by a complicated scale. On one side, there is a feather, on the other a small clay statuette. As you watch, the scale slowly tilts one degree toward the statuette.

You are neutral. Sandelfon is pleased with you.

[After this I was still "slightly distracted" from my prayers. Performing Detect Alignment directly after this gave the same result, so I know the ritual itself didn't move my alignment enough to change it.]

After a bit more praying, I stopped being "distracted", but detect alignment still showed me at one degree evil and Sandelfon was still just "pleased" with me.

After a little more prayer:

Your eyes closed, you see Sandelfon, God of Corridors, sitting cross-legged by a complicated scale. On one side, there is a feather, on the other a small clay statuette. The scale remains perfectly level.

You are neutral. Sandelfon is pleased with you.

After a bit more praying, Sandelfon became "very happy" with me instead of pleased (still "neutral" and the scale was still "perfectly level").

Note: I didn't kill anything or do anything else alignment-changing in this period, just sat indoors and prayed. Also, I got a yellow baton with Minor Shield in it from only just imbued to dull during this time, so that might give an idea of the gp involved.

--Ilde 07:11, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Later: Performing Detect Alignment on a Sekkite as he prayed from the lower end of "very evil" to "extremely evil", I found that he was still "very evil" at 24 degrees evil (we paused for a few minutes at this point, in case score align took some time to update), and reached 25 degrees evil at the same time as becoming "extremely evil". However I'm not willing to say that 24 degrees evil doesn't include some "extremely evil", so I think there may be a little bit of overlap there. (My fa.r.m.t bonus for this was 348.)

--Ilde 02:40, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

The distracted messages may be related to alignment but are also very much skill related and are do not appear at the same place for everyone. Whilst you may be getting the distracted messages whilst your deity is pleased with you (and from what I hear on the talker this is commonly the situation) I have yet to experience these messages. 26 evil is my ideal, the furthest I have been out so far is 12 on the good side, a long long way away from being able to use rituals, and I still get no message. I'm also fairly sure the amount of gp spent on a pray has something to do with it, with more gp making it harder. I've briefly mentioned this on the commands page on the pray section.

In view of this I'm not sure it's appropriate to say on the alignment page - The first warning that you're getting out of alignment is [...] when you "find yourself slightly distracted from your prayers"

Cinnamon 23:07, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

You're right; it's not. I've edited the page to take that into account.

ETA: Also! About the "reduced range with lower bonuses" bit... My Pishite was (according to Detect Alignment performed on herself) apparently only 6 degrees good with a bonus of, I think, about 170 in misc.self (unfortunately I didn't make a note of what my bonus was; I'm just remembering that I had 50-51 levels in it), and after advancing misc.self to 100/201, she detects as, variously, 5 degrees good, 8 degrees good, and 10 degrees good (seemingly getting more or less good depending on where she is (high altar (10), passage room (9), somewhere I didn't make a note of (5), far from a sacred shower (later in Genua, 10)--I haven't killed anything or done anything alignment-changing except pray in the meantime, so she should have been getting slowly but steadily more good instead of hopping around the alignment spectrum). I think it may actually be 12 or more, since that's what my totem detected as (with a mi.ta bonus of 239), and I gather those are the same as the priest that summoned them. Maybe that'll be a useful data point to somebody.

ETA 2: More on the "reduced range with lower bonuses" thing. Detecting alignment on Scoone of Hat, I got a result of 5 evil with a misc.ta bonus of 300/333 and 300/344 (with and without beads), whereas Kathiaca, with a misc.ta of 197/265, got a result of 4 evil for him. There was also a difference with Guido of Gapp: I saw him as 3 degrees good, whereas Kathiaca got 2 degrees good. I think this is because of the bonus difference, not because of differences in the ritual for different deities, since Pli and Cinnamon also got a result of 5 degrees evil for Scoone and 3 degrees good for Guido. Also, Kathiaca, Cinnamon, and I all got 26 degrees evil for Rudolpho of Sek (and 6 degrees good for Christopher of Gufnork, and 1 degree evil for Fillet of Fish), so I think the reduced range may be some kind of proportional thing--seeing them as x% less good/evil than they actually are. Scoone and Guido are probably closer to the boundaries between different Detect Alignment results than the other three are.

--Ilde 18:32, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


Adjusting the ranges again. Detecting alignment on a new character... I got both 12 good/very good and 12 evil/quite evil. My bonuse was the same (344) both times, and the circumstances were nearly the same: indoors and far from a holy corridor (the same room both times). The only difference was that for the 12 evil/quite evil result I had the "actively worshipping Sandelfon" bonus. Also, drowning/saving the max number of beetles in Pumpkin Town gets you to 25 degrees evil or 25 degrees good, and at that point "score align" still says "very good" or "very evil". --Ilde 08:41, 12 February 2009 (UTC)