Talk:Dust Devil

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Dust devils have changed now
- they should have better fighting skills now (i have not tested how much better)
- the limit of 2 devils was removed, and is probably determined by a skill (i can summon 2 easily, 3 if i'm lucky)
Someone suggested that it might be fa.ri.sp, but i cant be sure of that
(The above comment added by Nauia at 08:26 on 26th Feb 2010 -- Please remember to sign your discussion page comments with four tildes: ~~~~)

I can easily get three dusties (or a creeping doom and a dustie) with my stock bonuses, but am unable to get four even with OC wis bonus, a flat cap, and the high altar. Those stat increases took my mi.ar from 396 to 430, but I forgot to check other skills (fa.ri.sp is at a bonus of 402 most of the time). Not sure if this will be remotely helpful, but it might aid someone in figuring out which skill is used, or at what bonus levels the limit is increased... -- Mishal (talk) (MUD finger) 11:06, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
If anyone's interested in doing research on their fighting skills, maybe Holy Insight would be useful (just a shame it's not more granular)... anyone who doesn't have it can give me (Ilde or Roywyn) a poke; I've got at least one alt with the ritual and I'd be happy to use it on people's dusties. Maybe we could put together a table of dusty fighting skills vs. priests' skills. --Ilde 20:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)


Holy Insight results

Results of performing Holy Insight on different dust devils:

Devil size of.ar de.ar mi.ar modifiers ...at combat ...at staying fit noticing things
05Huge 179 195 201 high altar 07Reasonably good 06Better than average 05Average
05Huge 183 201 209 near a fluffy place; near a fluffy place + wrong god's altar 07Reasonably good 06Better than average 05Average
07Colossal 270 270 329 indoors + high altar + prayed recently; indoors + high altar 08Quite good 07Reasonably good 05Average
06Gigantic 270 270 329 indoors + high altar + controlling 1 devil 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
08Enormous 281 281 350 indoors + high altar + prayed recently 08Quite good 07Reasonably good 05Average
08Enormous 353 335 339 near a sacred shower 08Quite good 07Reasonably good 05Average
08Enormous 350 345 357 near a sacred shower 08Quite good 07Reasonably good 05Average
07Colossal 353 335 339 near a sacred shower + controlling 1 devil 08Quite good 07Reasonably good 05Average
06Gigantic 353 335 339 near a sacred shower + controlling 2 devils 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
04Large 353 335 339 rain + high altar + controlling 3 devils 07Reasonably good 06Better than average 05Average
06Gigantic 214 199 276 high altar 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
06Gigantic 214 123 276 high altar 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
06Gigantic 186 148 276 near sacred waters 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
06Gigantic 175 148 276 near sacred waters 07Reasonably good 06Better than average 05Average
07Colossal 236 199 276 high altar 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
07Colossal 236 123 276 high altar 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
09Humongous 445 440 431 near sacred waters 08Quite good 07Reasonably good 06Better than average
08Enormous 445 440 431 near sacred waters + controlling 1 devil 08Quite good 07Reasonably good 05Average
08Enormous 445 440 431 near sacred waters + controlling 2 devils 08Quite good 07Reasonably good 05Average
06Gigantic 445 440 431 near sacred waters + controlling 3 devils 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
05Huge 177 53 224 high altar 07Reasonably good 06Better than average 05Average
06Gigantic 177 53 236 high altar 07Reasonably good 06Better than average 05Average
06Gigantic 177 53 249 high altar 07Reasonably good 06Better than average 05Average
06Gigantic 177 53 261 high altar 07Reasonably good 06Better than average 05Average
06Gigantic 177 53 273 high altar 07Reasonably good 06Better than average 05Average
06Gigantic 177 53 277 high altar 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
06Gigantic 183 55 292 high altar 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
06Gigantic 184 55 309 high altar + actively worshipping 07Reasonably good 07Reasonably good 05Average
10Unbelievably large 432 410 500 near a proper party 08Quite good 07Reasonably good 06Better than average


The devils tested were also all "extremely poor at staying unnoticed", "average at noticing things", and had "average" scores in all stats except str, which didn't come up. Magic and religious matters also didn't come up. #1 is actually two different devils, made by the same person and with no differences between them. #2 is actually three devils, again made by the same person and showing no differences between them. --Ilde 01:46, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Again, #3 was two different devils by the same character. They were extremely poor at religious matters and staying unnoticed, with average int, con, wis, dex. Ditto for #4, which was of average strength, as well. So, so far it looks like fighting skills and hitpoints increase with skills (or just with size?), but not anything else. (#5 was also two whirlwinds with identical conditions.) --Ilde 04:37, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

ETA: The huge and gigantic dusties being "reasonably good" (250-300 bonus, apparently) at combat, while the larger colossal and enormous ones were only "quite good" (200-250 bonus) isn't a mistake, although it makes me wonder whether "reasonably good" and "quite good" are labeled correctly on the Holy Insight page. Unless dusties actually get worse at fighting as they get bigger, which seems implausible. Yep, they were switched on Holy Insight. Mystery solved! --Ilde 05:21, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Interesting comparisons

  • 175/148/276/near sacred waters versus 186/148/276/near sacred waters: hp goes from "better than average" to "reasonably good", showing that of.area affects hp. Also shows that devils of the same size are not all the same, as both devils were gigantic.
  • 177/53/224/high altar, increasing mi.area to 277 while keeping of.area steady: size increases and hp eventually goes from "better than average" to "reasonably good", showing that mi.area affects size and hp.
  • 236/123/276/high altar versus 177/53/277/high altar: higher of.area (and slightly lower misc.area) results in a "colossal" devil instead of a "gigantic" one, showing that of.area affects size.

Research: Number of devils

I've heard that de.ar affects how many devils you can summon, and I've also heard that ri.sp might affect it. So, let's see if there's any correlation.

Format: number of times can summon at least specified number of devils/number of attempts to summon that number of devils.

Modifiers of course means visible modifiers besides controlling dust devils, which is implied. Going outside of AM and journeying once along the road stops you from being either visibly near or far from holy ground. Passage rooms also work for Hat, Gapp, Gufnork, and Sek, although for Fish, Sandelfon, and Pishe they result in having the unique bonuses (in water, indoors, rain).

How they're counted:

  • If one devil is summoned, then dismissed (or times out), it's counted as a success for 1 devil and ignored for higher numbers (as there was no attempt to control more than one).
  • If one devil is summoned and attempting to summon another results in it slipping away, it's counted as a success for 1 devil, and a failure for all higher numbers.
  • Failing to summon a devil while not controlling any devils counts as a failure for all numbers.
of.ar de.ar mi.ar ri.sp modifiers 1 devil 2 devils 3 devils 4 devils 5 devils
276 271 339 335 none 15/15 14/15 9/15 0/15 0/15
237 252 327 318 none 15/15 10/15 0/15 0/15 0/15
238 207 279 269 none 15/15 10/15 0/15 0/15 0/15
243 183 255 194 none 13/15 11/15 1/15 0/15 0/15
178 69 302 61 none 12/15 0/15 0/15 0/15 0/15
179 195 201 209 none 12/15 0/15 0/15 0/15 0/15
184 199 231 206 none 10/15 0/15 0/15 0/15 0/15

Conclusion

Of.area determines how many dust devils you can have. Sorting by of.area shows that the highest bonus allows summoning three devils 9 of 15 times, the next highest allows summoning a third devil occasionally, the next two highest allow summoning a second devil 10 of 15 times (but never/rarely a third), and the lowest three bonuses never allow summoning a second devil (and result in a certain amount of failure to summon a devil even when not controlling any already). The only oddity is that the second-highest bonus results in complete failure (no devils at all) twice--however, this isn't very surprising, since the bonus is still quite close to the next two lowest, and the misc.area bonus was significantly lower.

Misc.area, def.area, and ri.sp do not appear to have any effect on the number of devils that may be summoned... sorting by any of these results in dramatic jumps in the "2 devils" column.

--Ilde 02:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


Priest's skills and devil abilities

Objective: Find out if and how the three different area skills affect devils' combat abilities (how often they hit and how much damage they do, and how well they dodge).

Method: Have devils created with low bonuses in all three skills fight someone (in the ctf arena) for about an hour total, healing the player and the devils whenever they're injured. Advance one skill, repeat. Advance another skill, repeat. Advance final skill, repeat. Go through the logs (with a script) and count up the hits and misses for both, keeping track of the damage that devils' hits did (where possible).

Sets:

  • Set #1: Devils created with a 180 or 182 bonus in of.ar, 80 de.ar, and 215 mi.ar.
  • Set #2: Mi.ar increased: Devils created with a 180 or 182 bonus in of.ar, 80 de.ar, and 302 mi.ar.
  • Set #3: Of.ar increased: Devils created with a 276 bonus in of.ar, 80 de.ar, and 302 mi.ar.
  • Set #4: De.ar increased: Devils created with a 276 bonus in of.ar, 239 de.ar, and 302 mi.ar.

Sets #2, #3, and #4 were actually done in two sessions, and set #2 actually had two characters creating the devils (I wanted to go back and do more, but had already advanced, so made another character, gave her the same stats, and advanced her skills to the same levels). Also, there was an of.ar tm during set #1, which carried over to part of set #2. This probably doesn't matter, though. We took the following steps to try to eliminate sources of error:

  • The person fighting the devils kept the same tactics and used the same weapon throughout, as well as wearing the same equipment (to keep burden constant).
  • We only did this during the day, to avoid penalties due to darkness.
  • He only fought the devils themselves, not me.
  • He didn't use any armour, so that we could get the damage for the devil's hits.

A possible source of error that we couldn't eliminate entirely was the varying degrees of injury that he and the devils had throughout. While I tried not to let either of them get too injured, this wasn't entirely successful, and I ended up dismissing the devil and waiting for gp to heal him and make a new devil fairly frequently. However, degree of injury didn't seem to make much difference in whether he hit or was hit by the devils.

Also, sometimes I got frost, mud, etc. dust devils along with the usual dust ones, because of the weather. These didn't seem any different, though.

Summary table

- Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4
Number of times devil hit 447 494 552 487
Number of times devil missed 292 261 250 199
Percentage of time devil hit 60% 65% 69% 71%
Number of times devil avoided being hit 156 150 167 138
Number of times devil was hit 391 416 355 303
Percentage of time devil avoided being hit 29% 27% 32% 31%
Mean damage of resolvable hits 70 80 97 100
Damage range of resolvable hits 15 - 168 20 - 203 21 - 232 27 - 279
Damage range of resolvable hits minus highest hit and lowest hit* 16 - 161 22 - 184 23 - 205 31 - 204
Number of resolvable hits 406 418 460 390
Number of unresolvable hits 41 76 92 97

Percentages are rounded to the nearest percent here, and mean damage is rounded to the nearest hitpoint.

A hit was "resolvable" if it was between two monitors, and no other hits or healing were between the same two monitors. If the devil hit twice in a row without a monitor between the hits, it was obviously impossible to tell how much damage either one did, and if I finished healing him before the next monitor kicked in (a major culprit of unresolvable hits), it was likewise impossible to tell.

  • In other words, minus a few outliers.

Conclusions

Increasing of.area appears to increase the amount of damage they deal, and help them hit more often.

Increasing misc.area appears to increase the amount of damage they deal, and help them hit more often.

Increasing de.area appears to have no effect, or else a very small one.

Hit types and damages

These are from all of the sets combined, and may be of some interest if you want to know approximately how much damage a dust devil's hits are probably doing. Since the messages may indicate percentages and not numbers of hitpoints, both exact damage and percentage damage is included.

Of course, these are only for the skill ranges specified above, so they don't include any higher-level damage messages that may exist, and likely have a lower maximum than is possible. They also don't include the different-looking attacks that some types of devils have.

Message Damage range  % range Mean Mean % times appeared specific type, if any
The <whirlwind> attempts to whip you with some debris but your skin absorbs some of the blow. 15 - 22 1.1 - 1.6 20 1.5 8
The <whirlwind> blows on you causing you to stumble. 29 - 64 2.2 - 4.8 50 3.7 59
The <whirlwind> caresses you with some dirty air. 36 - 43 2.7 - 3.2 40 2.9 2
The <whirlwind> chokes you with <material>. 52 - 106 3.9 - 7.9 80 6.0 27
The <whirlwind> nicks you but your skin absorbs some of the blow. 18 - 24 1.3 - 1.8 21 1.6 5 ice
The <whirlwind> nicks you. 20 - 128 1.5 - 9.5 65 4.8 38 ice
The <whirlwind> pummels you with strong winds. 57 - 131 4.2 - 9.8 97 7.2 59
The <whirlwind> shoves a large chunk of debris down your throat. 98 - 279 7.3 - 20.8 166 12.3 99
The <whirlwind> slices bits off you. 37 - 120 2.8 - 8.9 77 5.7 13 ice
The <whirlwind> swirls around you making your <body part> hurt. 87 - 192 6.5 - 14.3 127 9.4 60
The <whirlwind> swirls some dirt into your <body part>. 29 - 63 2.2 - 4.7 42 3.2 139
The <whirlwind> whips up a really nice piece of debris and slams you with it. 48 - 138 3.6 - 10.3 88 6.6 878
The <whirlwind> whips your <body part> with some debris but your skin absorbs some of the blow. 19 - 29 1.4 - 2.2 23 1.7 21
The <whirlwind> whips your <body part> with some debris. 20 - 41 1.5 - 3.1 30 2.3 116
The <whirlwind>'s swirling winds spin you in circles. 82 - 203 6.1 - 15.1 130 9.7 150


More

Anyone who's curious can find the lists of actions and starting hitpoints here:

And here's a list of just the dust devils' resolvable attacks from all sets, with damage:

Observation on different forms

I suspect that for each deity, the same set of deity-specific devils is used at the low altars, high altars, passage rooms and elsewhere in the deity's temple. It might be better to mark these as '<deity> holy rooms' rather than having separate annotations for high altar, low altar, passage room etc. --Zexium 19:45, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I think there are a few that you can get in passage rooms, but not temples. Ermmmmm... egrets and egresses in Sandelfon's passage room, balloons, streamers, and some other party stuff in Hat's passage room (aside from party hats and spilled drinks, which show up in the temple too), tiny purple flowers and tiny salamanders in Pishe's, just off the top of my head. Not sure if you can get towels in Pishe's passage room, either. Haven't seen anything to suggest to me that it matters where in a temple you are, though (although of course for all I know there could be exceptions), and there's definitely a lot of overlap between temple devils and passage room devils, so it might be sensible to have the overlapping ones as '<deity> holy rooms'. --Ilde 18:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
I get the impression that any form that appears in a temple may appear in a passage room, and also each passage room has some extras. It certainly doesn't seem to matter where in the temple. --Zexium 22:09, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if for gapp it might be better to show eg "(various) lace" instead of deadly / flamboyant / ripped etc lace, especially as they all count as "lace" for the achievement, also "(various) <animal>" for hat, rather than listing every combination of adjective and material / animal - it seems to me as if there's a "pick a random adjective from list a and a random animal / material from list b" for these two temples. --Zexium 22:09, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

That makes sense to me. Listing all possible combinations separately is a bit... cluttered. --Ilde 22:56, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Started adding in Ephebian forms as and where I find them. Might take a while to narrow down which are generic and which are room/area specific --celem Mar '14

Noted today that Council Buildings share a common set of forms regardless of city. Warrior's Guilds appear to follow the same pattern Celem (talk) 00:47, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

In general, certain categories share forms regardless of location. For example, warrior's guilds seem to give similar devils wherever they're located, and same for banks. Temples for a particular god appear to give similar devils at each of their locations. In general, the forms listed for Bois can also be found in Genua. And so on.